Taliban take control of Nice, France

In Nice a “soft” form of the Taliban seem to be in control as they’ve just banned:

the broadcasting of music in public

all neighbourhood street parties  throughout the whole of the county, Alpes-Maritimes

no gatherings of more than 10 people in parks or beaches

the sale of take-away alcohol  after 8 p.m. 

the consumption of alcohol in public after 8 p.m.

gatherings of over 1000 people

 

All this with the pretext of Covid Terror, which apparently is getting worse:

But…in France, something like 20% of tests are false positives. In part this is because, apart from Raoult’s hospital in Marseille where tests are carried out up to 35 levels, tests have been carried out to 45 levels, which means that they can see that  there may be traces of the virus that had been there but were no longer there and so no longer possibly infectious to others (I guess this is due to antibodies still present in the bloodstream). The government has just admitted that this level is too high and is going to reduce it to 35 levels. But the result has been that a lot more people have been diagnosed with the virus than have it. The rise in France, turning much of the south into a “red zone”, preventing people from outside the country from visiting because they’d have to put themselves in quarantine for 2 weeks when they return home, is also due to the fact that far more people are being tested than before. Plus the fact that the 2nd wave of a mutated Covid is more infectious, but less dangerous (ie less likely to lead to death) than the previous form of Covid.

 

For more on the latest developments around Covid-1984, see this

SamFanto was born, and then he lived a bit but never enough.

11 Responses to Taliban take control of Nice, France
  1. anti-capital says:

    Sure, that explains it, a new Taliban, conducting more tests, with excessive sensitivity– explains it all, nothing really to worry about… except the average number of daily deaths in France for each of the eight weeks from August 1 to September 25 increases from 6.6/day in the initial 7 day period to 56.4 /day in the final 7 day period (stats from WHO, a Taliban organization if ever there was one).

    Want the interim averages? OK week 2, 8.8 daily deaths; week 3, 13 daily deaths; week 4, 17.5 daily deaths; week 5, 13.7 daily deaths; week 6, 17 daily deaths; week 7, 39.4 daily deaths.

    Don’t worry, be happy. The trend is your friend, isn’t it?

  2. Anti-capital is only looking at the weekly and daily deaths for the period from August 1st without comparing it with previous weeks.

    According to this – https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103422/coronavirus-france-deaths/ – though it’s hard to know their reliability (how Covid-related deaths are counted is very problematic), statistics show that between 1st August and 24th September there were 1194 deaths from Covid in France. That is, about 150 per week.

    From March 12th (5 days before confinement/lockdown) to May 11th when confinement was lifted, there were 26,643 deaths. That is, about 3000 per week.
    Between the end of confinement and July 31st there were 3625 deaths. That is, something close to 300 per week.
    In fact, as a general trend, deaths are slowing down, even if from day to day they go up and down (in fact, the last figure on this chart is 52 deaths compared with 78 for the previous figure). If my maths is correct, the death rate is now roughly HALF of what it was in the period following the end of confinement and roughly 5% of what it was during confinement.

    That is, considerably more died during the times of confinement – when bars, restaurants, etc were closed, festivals and parties and traveling were forbidden or severely restricted – than the period from either August 1st, when anti-capital’s statistics begin, or from the period following the end of lockdown, a period when restrictions were not as draconian as they are now.

    Be interested in anti-capital’s justification for his pro-WHO (and pro-state) “logic” (ie massively contradictory “evidence”) here. His faith in this organisation is touching/touched. It’s an organisation significantly funded by the pharmaceutical industry nowadays. And for some time has been complicit in capital’s attacks on small farmers amongst other miseries. I mention small farmers because the bird flu scare of 2005 was used as a pretext to destroy the peasantry in France in favour of agribusiness. In 2005 the WHO predicted that bird flu would kill at the very least 5,000,000 people worldwide. In fact, it killed under 400 people. And nobody in France. If you believe that there can be a good state (presumably the prefecture of Nice and elsewhere in France) it’s not too much of a leap to express faith in the WHO, who I hope die before I get old. Well, we’ve got to be optimistic.

  3. anti-capital says:

    It’s not a “pro-WHO” or pro-state position.
    I take only the data that is reported to/by WHO. It’s an anti-ignorance position. I endorse no acts taken by any capitalist state, but I certainly don’t endorse the pseudo-science/conspiracy theory nonsense peddled by you and so many who pretend to be “radical.”

    All you’ve shown is that indeed deaths accelerated peaked and then declined during the lockdown period; exactly the exacted path. The trend in deaths and cases has turned up particularly as the holiday period ended.
    As have hospitalizations in the past ten days.

    Re French agriculture: Agriculture absorbs 4% if the labor force and accounts for 3% GDP. Farm sizes doubled to about 50 hectares between 1955 and 2000; the number of farms declined by more than half.

    What peasantry?

    The post WW2 plan was to eliminate vestiges of the “peasantry” and the small, scattered plots that survived, consolidating them into holdings large enough to make mechanization worthwhile. That was accomplished.

    Eurostat, in 2007, reports (I know, another suspicious source) that 10% of French farms used less than 2 hectares, while 41% use more than 50 hectares.

    Did the number of farms decline after 2005; sure did. That’s the trend in every advanced country, bird flu or no bird flu.

    • I’ve shown very obvious contradictions that you’ve decided to ignore. Not worth debating with a brick wall.

      And I am not into conspiracy theories but “conspiracies” DO exist, even if conspiracy theorists ignore the reasons and functioning behind these “conspiracies” and reduce things to the crudest simplistic level. I have in fact critiqued conspiracy theories elsewhere, but nowadays every time you show a commonality and/or complicity between different sectors of capitalist interests you’re categorised as a conspiracy theorist – by marxists like anti-capital as by the ruling society.

      I’ll elaborate on these things at some later date, but not so as to debate with someone who is consistently simplistic, reductionist and worse and who just ignores so so much, but to clarify for myself and for those who seriously want to struggle to grasp the complexity of what I and the proletariat are up against.

  4. PS to the above.

    “Anti-capital” is American. Each country has a very different policy vis-a-vis Covid but people tend to project their own specific national experience of it onto other countries. They also have little awareness of the debates that go on in each country. Which may go a bit towards explaining why “anti-capital”, coming from Trump-engineered misery, has such a faux “commonsense” take on this situation. It’s true that in the period following the holidays deaths per week have doubled or more in France as compared with the holiday period, but they’re still nothing compared with when everyone was locked up and terrified, a time when shops and supermarkets were open but not street markets, bars or restaurants, a time when it was forbidden to have parties or whatever margin of pleasurable sociability that this society has previously permitted up till now, a time when Covid-related deaths soared. Now obviously I’m not in favour of people going to work or school or wherever if their health is likely to be adversely affected. Work and school etc in normal times adversely affects your health, let alone when people can spread an illness. But this doesn’t mean accepting the massive illogic of both capital as well as “Anti-capital” in response to all these miseries.

    One of the hardest things to grasp in this Age of Endarkenment are the nuances of all the various aspects of what is a very new attack by the powers-that-be on proletarian struggle and life. Thrown into chaos and hierarchically-sustained confusion most resort to previously-formed ideas that have little relevance to the current situation and reduce reality to the safety of these ideas. So they assume attitudes that fit into these pre-formed perspectives and thus ignore so much. Lack of free time, lack of energy, lack of concentration and lack of focus combine with lack of inclination to repress nuanced research & insights and produce a mentality that makes well-informed communication almost impossible, and certainly a constant almost vertically uphill struggle that’s virtually unprecedented. We walk into walls and we become walls. Bulldozing them from the inside and outside is a painful task. But vital.

    Scarily, people who you sometimes think are on your side, are often so blocked to understanding that there’s something beyond an either/or Manichean mentality that they feel forced to categorise you in one of the boxes that fits this either/or mentality because they cannot understand nuance. “Anti-capital” (S.Artesian) is a particularly abrasive version of this (see, for example, this thread: https://dialectical-delinquents.com/class-struggle-histories-2/homage-to-catatonia-2/#comment-271583), to the point where he ignores all facts that don’t conform to his “theory” despite saying he’s “anti-ignorance”. A rivalrous mentality is often so narcissistic that it can never dare recognise something that points out a contradiction in what they say because for them that would be an attack on their whole sense of self, their dignity. They are always right and everything that shows that they might not be has to be caricatured so as to maintain a strawman argument.

  5. anti-capital says:

    ad hominem bullshit. You’re incapable of dealing with any concrete issue so you fall back into your pseudo psychological crap. What a surprise.

  6. “incapable of dealing with any concrete issue ” – how you manage to convince yourself of this God or Marx only knows. Lying to yourself is self-destructive. I mean, I can’t even see why you’d do this – you’re hardly likely to convince others of such nonsense. And even if you did convince others, what material reasons do you have for doing so? Bizarre.

  7. anti-capital says:

    Look, you made a number of assertions in the Taliban article and comments that just are worse than nonsense during a pandemic:

    1) “20% false positives”– where did you get? I know of no studies that have shown the testing for the virus produces 20% false positives. Last May, when the issue was raised, the false positive rate was estimated at 1%. The false NEGATIVE rate was thought to be a possible 20%.

    2. Moreover neither false positives nor increased testing account for a) increasing hospitalizations b) increasing death rates. The “more testing” baloney is exactly the same baloney spewed by Trump and his allies in Texas, Florida, Arizona etc., ignoring, conveniently that percentages of positives had increased. Then of course hospitalizations soared, and the governors had to impose, or allow, lockdown measures, masks, etc. Funny how the same misinformation gets spread on both sides of the Atlantic, and by the same pseudo-left and ultra-right sources, isn’t it?

    3) You assert: “Plus the fact that the 2nd wave of a mutated Covid is more infectious, but less dangerous (ie less likely to lead to death)”– what evidence do you have for that? If it’s more infectious, than the in fact the increase in infections is NOT caused by your previous assertion that the testing is “too sensitive.” A recent study of 5000 genetic sequences of the virus (released by James Musser of Houston Methodist Hospital) shows that the dominant strain that hit Texas in the second wave carried the D614g mutation. No studies yet have shown any significance of clinical outcomes to those infected with that strain; and certainly the second wave in Texas was the most deadly with the month of August registering almost 6000 dead, following the record number of cases in July, and a record PERCENTAGE of positive tests. Kind of argues against the “false positive” explanation.

    4. You say the current death rate is 5% of what it was at the time of confinement. No shit, Sherlock. Glad you’re not a detective. All you’ve demonstrated is that confinement worked, and works. What counts are the trends. Current death rates are half of what they were at the end of confinement? Brilliant. What is the trend, and what circumstances can account for the change in trend? That’s the nut when you’re dealing with a pandemic. What accounts for the change, from peak to trough, and then the rise from the trough.

    Claiming you’re “dialectical” or a “delinquent” doesn’t, or shouldn’t, give you license to spread misinformation, distortion, and ignorance. And you are doing all three.

    • I’m talking about France. Nice is in France, right? It says so as part of the title of the article. But you don’t seem be talking about France. The situation in the US is obviously different and I’m not familiar with all the details there, though I know bits and pieces. And I can half-understand why the craziness of over 200,000 deaths there may make your perspective and manner very confusedly hostile towards anyone who tries to get some critical distance from all the various Manichean either/ors that jump on this or that aspect of the crisis in a simplistic reductionist manner. But a critical distance is essential in order to separate the truth from the false: in a world that has really been turned upside down as almost never before, the true is a moment of the false as almost never before as well.

      At the same time, I admit I may be over-affected by the mad lack of logic here. In my area, Occitanie, deaths from Covid are roughly a quarter of the amount of deaths from flu 3 or 4 years ago. In my village, where anti-Covid regulations are worse than during confinement/lockdown, there’ve been NO SEVERE CASES of Covid whatsoever. Here people having no power in this world think they can compensate for this not by doing anything against the state or the current and impending horrors but by coming up close to you to insist you cover your nose with your mask even though it mists up your glasses and interferes with your breathing, even though the efficacy of masks is pretty doubtful, and certainly greatly exaggerated (the virus can also enter through the eyes – the next stage will be compulsory goggles for all) and even though their approach could – within their own logic – endanger themselves and you. It’s this one-size-fits-all regime, the closing down of bars etc. in Nice, Marseille and elsewhere (which you seem to support) just to encourage the demise of the petit-bourgeois bar and restaurant owners to the profit of monopoly capital – the chain restaurants and bars which is so stupid and suffocating. And confinement , and its possible return, was and may well become again, just an answer to the fact that over the last 15 years 70,000 public hospital beds have been dispensed with and the state hasn’t wanted to requisition space in private hospitals. And the fact that chloraquine has been shown , if given in the right dose and with the right balance of azythromycine, to have reduced deaths to 25% of what they are for patients not administered hydroxychloraquine and yet they’ve officially banned it unless it’s given when the illness has advanced so far that it’s too late. And the fact that Covid has been given priority so that those with other life-threatening diseases are being sent home to die there. And and and…

      As you can see, I know more about France than the situation in the US, though of course contradictory information has reached pandemic levels as almost never before both here and where you live also (and probably almost everywhere else). Just as you think you’ve got a grip on things, the wind (and the “facts”) changes and you lose your grip. But in different ways from country to country which it is not so easy to be familiar with. So, despite your beligerent manner and confused content, I’ll do my best to answer what I feel almost not worthwhile answering because of your attitude. I do this not because I feel I could possibly influence you at the moment, any more than I could influence a runaway train by standing in front of it and holding my hand up, but for myself so as to clarify my ideas and for the very few people who will read this page:

      1. Certain French doctors have said they’ve had 20% false positives. I admit I haven’t found out if this is a general trend but some have confirmed this in the media, and I haven’t heard of any doctor contesting this. I may have got this wrong but then loads of people must have got this wrong also, and the enormity of false information and manipulation of facts and figures during this crisis is virtually unprecedented. I personally know of a nursing home where suddenly in August – for the first time – 3 patients were diagnosed as having Covid. 3 or 4 days later they were found to be negative. Since then, for the first time in this home, 1 woman, not diagnosed in August, has died from Covid – she was 100 years old (although I also know of a woman of 96, the grandmother of a friend, who had Covid and her symptoms were no worse than a cold). You may possibly dismiss this as “anecdotal”, but then there’s lots of definitely true things in history that are only confirmed for the most part “anecdotally” (e.g. the gas chambers).

      2. “Funny how the same misinformation gets spread on both sides of the Atlantic, and by the same pseudo-left and ultra-right sources, isn’t it?” Let’s firstly make it clear – I, unlike you, am not “Left”, pseudo or otherwise. The Left is as much a problem as the Right. Besides, you really are using an amalgam technique worthy of Stalin. My reference point is a struggle to unravel my own point of view uncolonised by ideological falsifications. I’m beyond being concerned by whether my ideas and desires are pigeon-holed as left or right. I want to have nothing to do with the left-right spectrum, which tends to allying oneself with horrible people and horrible social relations out of an identification with an externally-defined category. Besides, just because a fascist says the sky is blue doesn’t mean to say we should say that it’s green. As I’ve said before, Hitler and his scientists said, about 13 years before the American Cancer Society changed from being pro-smoking to being against it, that cigarettes caused cancer. I think we may agree on at least this – Hitler was not the nicest man on the planet and generally speaking was not that concerned with people’s health. Yet are we to say cigarettes are good for our health just because Hitler rightly pointed out the opposite? Sometimes even our most vile enemies get things right. Only Leftists allow their ideas to be defined by the Right by reacting against them, taking the opposite point of view (and often that’s also the case with Right vis-à-vis the left).
      As to the essential point you’re making, I suspect neither of us have got it precisely right here. It’s hard to know how long between someone being diagnosed as having Covid and their death is. We know that the incubation period is probably a maximum of 7 days (which is why there’s a 7-day quarantine period for those traveling from a “red zone” in France to Belgium, for those having been tested negative on arrival in Belgium). But the time from diagnosis to death amongst the proportionally few who die from it I find very hard to discover. But you may be right that it takes a long time, in which case my figures do not lead to the conclusion I made. However, masks, lockdown etc. do not appear to have worked in Spain, where the most draconian Covid-related regime in Europe (with fines up to €600,000!…back in May they’d already accumulated over half a billion euros in fines, 3 times higher than the second highest country in Europe) has been imposed with no noticeable reduction in deaths and hospitalisations both before and after confinement (this, according to people I know in Spain; haven’t checked it up independently because my Spanish is too rusty).

      3.The evidence for “the fact that the 2nd wave of a mutated Covid is more infectious, but less dangerous (ie less likely to lead to death)” comes from – firstly Dr. Raoult, then almost immediately confirmed by lots of doctors, then the government – which was forced to admit this briefly, agreeing that the current mutation was less dangerous but emphasising that it could become more so without providing evidence for this speculation. Then the whole thing was kept quiet and the dominant society continued as if it hadn’t been said. In this crisis if you blink you miss something vital, just as in a war blinking can get you killed.
      As for the recognition that the testing is “too sensitive” (not my words, even though you put them in inverted commas) – this comes from Raoult again and the government here was forced to admit that going to 45 levels was too high, that 35 levels was sufficient. I speculated in the original post that the 45 level test was measuring all antibodies – as you hopefully know, antibodies stay in the system long after an infectious illness has disappeared. I haven’t checked this up but it’s enough to know that, since the government went against its previous protocol, it’s generally right to assume that they wouldn’t admit to a mistake if it wasn’t one, though I may have got it wrong about the reasoning behind this mistake. There’s too many other things to do with my life than check up on this reasoning because it’s not really important given the retraction of their previous position. It seems like you didn’t re-read what I wrote but assumed it from a first reading and subsequently just trusted your memory.

      4.
      As to the essential point you’re making, I suspect neither of us have got it precisely right here. It’s hard to know how long between someone being diagnosed as having Covid and their death is. We know that the incubation period is probably a maximum of 7 days (which is why there’s a 7-day quarantine period for those traveling from a “red zone” in France to Belgium, for those having been tested negative on arrival in Belgium). But the time from diagnosis to death amongst the proportionally few who die from it I find very hard to discover. But you may be right that it takes a long time, in which case my figures do not lead to the conclusion I made. However, masks, lockdown etc. do not appear to have worked in Spain, where the most draconian Covid-related regime in Europe (with fines up to €600,000!…back in May they’d already accumulated over half a billion euros in fines, 3 times higher than the second highest country in Europe) has been imposed with no noticeable reduction in deaths and hospitalisations both before and after confinement (this, according to people I know in Spain; haven’t checked it up independently because my Spanish is too rusty).

      There are other things I want to say. For example, the extent to which you tend to embrace the enormous lack of logic of many of the various states’ impositions of restrictions even if you say you don’t endorse any acts taken by any capitalist state ( as if there could be a state that wasn’t capitalist). And then you get angry about me being disgusted by the French state’s acts. Self-contradiction is part of the dominant illogic and also part of the assumption of always being right agaoinst someone you put in a rivalrous position even if that means you say one thing one moment and then contradict yourself the next. I could go into all this further but I’ve already said an excessive amount, so for the moment I’ll leave it at that.
      Apart from this: if you continue with your obnoxious beligerence and often arrogant ignorance, and show you’re both incapable of, and uninterested in, seeing anything other than from an Americo-centric point of view, then I’ll “censor” you according to the rule I set down in the introduction to this site: “This is not an open access site: it has no pretensions to being “democratic” in the sense of being welcoming to absolutely anybody. Anyone who persists over time in dogmatic ideological arguments which go nowhere will be censored and/or banned. Undoubtedly there will be many who have ideologically petrified notions whilst also having some lucid ideas and interesting facts to contribute. But if they persist in pursuing their dogmas impervious to argument, then their useless & facile comments will be suppressed. The aim of this site is not to get into head-bashing ego-battles, to repeatedly refute the same stale ideas, but to develop perspectives that clarify and help advance social contestation, to bring a breath of fresh air. “ Continuing such a “dialogue” would be a waste of my time (and probably yours’ too).

  8. anti-capital says:

    Your lack of knowledge is astounding: “I speculated in the original post that the 45 level test was measuring all antibodies – as you hopefully know, antibodies stay in the system long after an infectious illness has disappeared.”

    Now maybe I’m not in France, but unless France is using a protocol nowhere else in the world utilizes, antibody tests are not used to determine whether or not the host is currently infected.

    Testing for INFECTION is based on detecting the virus, or pieces of the virus, itself.

    That’s all that needs to be said about your scientific knowledge.

    As for the rest, the facts are quite simply that hospitalization rates and death rates are climbing which increases cannot be the result of increased testing.

    You continue to defend your ignorance in the face of rising hospitalizations and increasing mortality throughout Europe– Spain, Sweden, the UK, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc.

    If the disease is more infectious but less serious in its “mutated” form, then a) identify the mutation b)provide the evidence c) explain the increasing hospitalizations and deaths.

    If you can’t do that, you can’t be troubled to do that, it’s not worth doing that because after all, I’m an American, and a capital M Marxist…. well that too says all that needs to be said about you.

    What? It’s a French thing? Is that your equivalent of “Can a white man sing the blues?” Christ, grow up.

    Yeah, I have every intention of calling out your faux critiques. Arrogant ignorance? Please, you own the market.

    But go ahead censor away; censor away. How very American of you.

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